Toyota表示:慢點推柴油油電,對EV持懷疑 - 汽車
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By Brianna
at 2017-06-28T21:25
at 2017-06-28T21:25
Table of Contents
※ 引述《Scape (缺鈣缺很大)》之銘言:
: http://incar.tw/post/toyota-downplays-diesel-hybrids-remains
: Toyota表示不會太快推出柴油Hybrid車型,同時也對EV車款持懷疑態度
: 柴油引擎擁有足夠的潛力能搭配油電混合動力系統好讓油耗更加節省,不過多數車廠
: 仍舊維持汽油引擎的設定,Toyota是油電混合動力技術的領先車廠,不過他們卻表示
: 不會在近期內推出柴油油電混合動力車款。
: 根據The Detroit Bureau的報導指出,Toyota的執行總經理Shizuo Abe告訴記者說柴
: 油引擎比汽油引擎要貴得多,而油電混合動力系統也因為其複雜的技術導致造價昂貴
: ,他補充說到:「當結合兩種系統時,價格會迅速攀升,因此我們必須要花一些時間
: 來找出適合的解決方案以削減成本進而符合消費者的要求。」
: 除了淡化柴油油電混合動力系統的可能性之外,Abe似乎也在暗示該廠想將純電車款
: 的發展減速,他解釋說現階段缺乏向充電站一樣的充電設施,唯一的解決方法是像
: Tesla一樣建造類似超級充電站網路的昂貴充電系統。
: 由於這項原因,當大多數車廠面對「環保車輛 」的議題時,所得出的結論多半是「
: 油電混合動力」或「插電式油電混合動力」車款,根據Abe指出,插電式油電混合動
: 力車款與燃料電池車款一樣,「能輕易地在家中或工作場所進行充電,這使得它變成
: 一種較可行的方案」。
: ==============================================================================
: 這位Toyota總經理的話前後矛盾
: 先是說純電車款缺乏充電設施,需要有像Tesla那樣的快速充電系統
: 後又說插電款油電車跟燃料電池車可以輕易的在家中或工作場所充電
: 為什麼有油的就可以在家插電很輕鬆,純電車在家插電就不行,需要到外用快充???
我想,他的意思是,PHV除了充電以外,還能加油
在急需續航的情況下,PHV能快速解決問題
Tesla的超充速度也不慢,可以解決問題
但一般車廠(目前)不會想花大錢蓋超充
: 另外還說超級充電站是昂貴的充電系統
: 那Toyota力推的燃料電池車所需要的加氫站也不便宜
: 建一座不算土地成本就要3-400萬美元
: 說快速充電站昂貴,然後選了一個更貴的加氫站?
: 來做一點數學計算好了
: 假設去超級充電站的車主平均每次都待滿40分鐘,台北花博超充有六個充電樁
: 等於40分鐘可以充6台車
: 在google地圖上找了一下加氫站看是什麼樣子
: 東京杉並區:http://i.imgur.com/M4yppuU.jpg
: 一次加一台
: 東京目黒水素ステーション:http://i.imgur.com/RPs8K40.jpg
: 一次加兩台
: 名古屋 愛知縣:http://i.imgur.com/LilzW3s.jpg
: 一次加一台(這應該是給大型車加氫用的)
: 可能我找到的都是特例,一座加氫站只能加一台兩台
: 假設一座正常的加氫站平均有6支加氫槍好了,一次可以加六台,五分鐘可以加滿
: 等於40分鐘可以服務48台車,效率是超級充電站的8倍
: 但是價格呢?
: 一座超級充電站建置成本大約是10-15萬美元,是加氫站的2.x% ~ 5%左右
: 換句話說建一座加氫站的錢可以拿來建20-30幾座超級充電站
: 以這樣來看,花同樣的錢建超充的服務效率比起建加氫站要來的更好
: 而且下一代的充電站電壓更大,花的充電時間更少,進一步拉大差距
: 維護費用也是加氫站要高得多,更別說還要算上氫氣的運輸費用了
他應該沒提到加氫站,所以其實不需要拉加氫站來救援.
全世界的加氫站,豐田花了多少%的錢?
沒意外的話,Tesla的超充,Tesla應該付了大部分吧?
立足點就不一樣了
Musk本來就是想把電動車的餅做大,再來賣能源
一般車廠別說加氫站了,大量蓋超級充電站都不太可能
: 柴油油電就別提了
: 柴油引擎是註定被淘汰的事物,就算加了油電系統也是延後被淘汰的時間而已
: Toyota造車技術很厲害沒錯,但不知道在想什麼
我看他的意思,應該也是不想做柴油油電車,所以不用去猜他在想什麼XD
柴油車的低轉高扭特性,還有省油,油電車都能做到
而且還比柴油車少排放NOx
柴油引擎能讓油電車的油耗更好,但效益不高不划算
: 是否因為自己技術好專利多就陷入了迷思裡,認為車子一定要越做越複雜才可以?
: 柴油引擎貴,要將柴電的成本降下來需要更多的研發跟更多的技術
: 能做出來是很好,但也只是短期建立了技術障礙,遲早會被淘汰
: 電動車也是
: 之前不發展電動車的理由有部分就是認為電動車技術簡單,想做隨時都能做
: 跑去發展比較複雜的燃料電池氫汽車
: 現在歐美各大車廠的主流都是要發展電動車
: 除了Nissan外,日本車廠反而發展的很慢
: 如果是因為自視過高錯過了發展電動車的時機,到時候被笑就是自找的...
--
: http://incar.tw/post/toyota-downplays-diesel-hybrids-remains
: Toyota表示不會太快推出柴油Hybrid車型,同時也對EV車款持懷疑態度
: 柴油引擎擁有足夠的潛力能搭配油電混合動力系統好讓油耗更加節省,不過多數車廠
: 仍舊維持汽油引擎的設定,Toyota是油電混合動力技術的領先車廠,不過他們卻表示
: 不會在近期內推出柴油油電混合動力車款。
: 根據The Detroit Bureau的報導指出,Toyota的執行總經理Shizuo Abe告訴記者說柴
: 油引擎比汽油引擎要貴得多,而油電混合動力系統也因為其複雜的技術導致造價昂貴
: ,他補充說到:「當結合兩種系統時,價格會迅速攀升,因此我們必須要花一些時間
: 來找出適合的解決方案以削減成本進而符合消費者的要求。」
: 除了淡化柴油油電混合動力系統的可能性之外,Abe似乎也在暗示該廠想將純電車款
: 的發展減速,他解釋說現階段缺乏向充電站一樣的充電設施,唯一的解決方法是像
: Tesla一樣建造類似超級充電站網路的昂貴充電系統。
: 由於這項原因,當大多數車廠面對「環保車輛 」的議題時,所得出的結論多半是「
: 油電混合動力」或「插電式油電混合動力」車款,根據Abe指出,插電式油電混合動
: 力車款與燃料電池車款一樣,「能輕易地在家中或工作場所進行充電,這使得它變成
: 一種較可行的方案」。
: ==============================================================================
: 這位Toyota總經理的話前後矛盾
: 先是說純電車款缺乏充電設施,需要有像Tesla那樣的快速充電系統
: 後又說插電款油電車跟燃料電池車可以輕易的在家中或工作場所充電
: 為什麼有油的就可以在家插電很輕鬆,純電車在家插電就不行,需要到外用快充???
我想,他的意思是,PHV除了充電以外,還能加油
在急需續航的情況下,PHV能快速解決問題
Tesla的超充速度也不慢,可以解決問題
但一般車廠(目前)不會想花大錢蓋超充
: 另外還說超級充電站是昂貴的充電系統
: 那Toyota力推的燃料電池車所需要的加氫站也不便宜
: 建一座不算土地成本就要3-400萬美元
: 說快速充電站昂貴,然後選了一個更貴的加氫站?
: 來做一點數學計算好了
: 假設去超級充電站的車主平均每次都待滿40分鐘,台北花博超充有六個充電樁
: 等於40分鐘可以充6台車
: 在google地圖上找了一下加氫站看是什麼樣子
: 東京杉並區:http://i.imgur.com/M4yppuU.jpg
: 一次加一台
: 東京目黒水素ステーション:http://i.imgur.com/RPs8K40.jpg
: 一次加兩台
: 名古屋 愛知縣:http://i.imgur.com/LilzW3s.jpg
: 一次加一台(這應該是給大型車加氫用的)
: 可能我找到的都是特例,一座加氫站只能加一台兩台
: 假設一座正常的加氫站平均有6支加氫槍好了,一次可以加六台,五分鐘可以加滿
: 等於40分鐘可以服務48台車,效率是超級充電站的8倍
: 但是價格呢?
: 一座超級充電站建置成本大約是10-15萬美元,是加氫站的2.x% ~ 5%左右
: 換句話說建一座加氫站的錢可以拿來建20-30幾座超級充電站
: 以這樣來看,花同樣的錢建超充的服務效率比起建加氫站要來的更好
: 而且下一代的充電站電壓更大,花的充電時間更少,進一步拉大差距
: 維護費用也是加氫站要高得多,更別說還要算上氫氣的運輸費用了
他應該沒提到加氫站,所以其實不需要拉加氫站來救援.
全世界的加氫站,豐田花了多少%的錢?
沒意外的話,Tesla的超充,Tesla應該付了大部分吧?
立足點就不一樣了
Musk本來就是想把電動車的餅做大,再來賣能源
一般車廠別說加氫站了,大量蓋超級充電站都不太可能
: 柴油油電就別提了
: 柴油引擎是註定被淘汰的事物,就算加了油電系統也是延後被淘汰的時間而已
: Toyota造車技術很厲害沒錯,但不知道在想什麼
我看他的意思,應該也是不想做柴油油電車,所以不用去猜他在想什麼XD
柴油車的低轉高扭特性,還有省油,油電車都能做到
而且還比柴油車少排放NOx
柴油引擎能讓油電車的油耗更好,但效益不高不划算
: 是否因為自己技術好專利多就陷入了迷思裡,認為車子一定要越做越複雜才可以?
: 柴油引擎貴,要將柴電的成本降下來需要更多的研發跟更多的技術
: 能做出來是很好,但也只是短期建立了技術障礙,遲早會被淘汰
: 電動車也是
: 之前不發展電動車的理由有部分就是認為電動車技術簡單,想做隨時都能做
: 跑去發展比較複雜的燃料電池氫汽車
: 現在歐美各大車廠的主流都是要發展電動車
: 除了Nissan外,日本車廠反而發展的很慢
: 如果是因為自視過高錯過了發展電動車的時機,到時候被笑就是自找的...
--
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at 2017-08-31T20:16
at 2017-08-31T20:16

By William
at 2017-09-01T01:59
at 2017-09-01T01:59

By Andrew
at 2017-09-04T15:52
at 2017-09-04T15:52

By Linda
at 2017-09-06T02:54
at 2017-09-06T02:54

By Joe
at 2017-09-07T23:15
at 2017-09-07T23:15

By Frederica
at 2017-09-11T06:50
at 2017-09-11T06:50

By Daph Bay
at 2017-09-14T23:07
at 2017-09-14T23:07

By Daniel
at 2017-09-18T02:46
at 2017-09-18T02:46

By Annie
at 2017-09-22T10:03
at 2017-09-22T10:03

By Emily
at 2017-09-23T00:24
at 2017-09-23T00:24

By Adele
at 2017-09-24T03:19
at 2017-09-24T03:19

By Tom
at 2017-09-27T08:05
at 2017-09-27T08:05

By Gilbert
at 2017-09-30T13:26
at 2017-09-30T13:26

By Delia
at 2017-10-05T03:08
at 2017-10-05T03:08

By Adele
at 2017-10-07T21:04
at 2017-10-07T21:04

By Zenobia
at 2017-10-09T05:53
at 2017-10-09T05:53

By Ida
at 2017-10-10T08:48
at 2017-10-10T08:48

By Skylar DavisLinda
at 2017-10-10T17:48
at 2017-10-10T17:48

By Sandy
at 2017-10-15T17:23
at 2017-10-15T17:23

By Erin
at 2017-10-19T01:22
at 2017-10-19T01:22

By Queena
at 2017-10-22T20:52
at 2017-10-22T20:52

By Connor
at 2017-10-26T20:18
at 2017-10-26T20:18

By Susan
at 2017-10-28T07:41
at 2017-10-28T07:41

By Joseph
at 2017-10-31T20:02
at 2017-10-31T20:02

By Rosalind
at 2017-11-04T10:21
at 2017-11-04T10:21

By Jacob
at 2017-11-07T04:36
at 2017-11-07T04:36

By Carolina Franco
at 2017-11-07T23:46
at 2017-11-07T23:46

By Zanna
at 2017-11-11T11:04
at 2017-11-11T11:04

By Jacob
at 2017-11-15T18:22
at 2017-11-15T18:22

By Audriana
at 2017-11-16T13:22
at 2017-11-16T13:22

By Wallis
at 2017-11-17T09:48
at 2017-11-17T09:48

By Donna
at 2017-11-18T11:04
at 2017-11-18T11:04

By Connor
at 2017-11-20T09:28
at 2017-11-20T09:28

By Steve
at 2017-11-23T01:27
at 2017-11-23T01:27

By Quintina
at 2017-11-28T01:01
at 2017-11-28T01:01

By Eartha
at 2017-12-02T11:57
at 2017-12-02T11:57

By Audriana
at 2017-12-03T23:18
at 2017-12-03T23:18

By Callum
at 2017-12-07T12:59
at 2017-12-07T12:59

By Annie
at 2017-12-08T04:28
at 2017-12-08T04:28

By Robert
at 2017-12-08T20:33
at 2017-12-08T20:33

By Barb Cronin
at 2017-12-11T08:06
at 2017-12-11T08:06

By Harry
at 2017-12-11T23:50
at 2017-12-11T23:50

By Lily
at 2017-12-16T09:10
at 2017-12-16T09:10

By Dora
at 2017-12-21T01:13
at 2017-12-21T01:13

By Freda
at 2017-12-24T13:59
at 2017-12-24T13:59

By Doris
at 2017-12-26T07:22
at 2017-12-26T07:22

By Emily
at 2017-12-27T02:53
at 2017-12-27T02:53

By David
at 2017-12-31T07:47
at 2017-12-31T07:47

By William
at 2017-12-31T17:23
at 2017-12-31T17:23

By Poppy
at 2018-01-03T13:18
at 2018-01-03T13:18

By Carolina Franco
at 2018-01-07T03:29
at 2018-01-07T03:29

By Ivy
at 2018-01-09T03:07
at 2018-01-09T03:07

By Elvira
at 2018-01-10T21:51
at 2018-01-10T21:51

By Irma
at 2018-01-12T19:10
at 2018-01-12T19:10

By George
at 2018-01-14T08:52
at 2018-01-14T08:52

By Linda
at 2018-01-18T06:39
at 2018-01-18T06:39

By Sierra Rose
at 2018-01-20T12:44
at 2018-01-20T12:44

By Brianna
at 2018-01-23T18:41
at 2018-01-23T18:41

By Dorothy
at 2018-01-27T06:24
at 2018-01-27T06:24

By Jake
at 2018-02-01T05:06
at 2018-02-01T05:06

By Frederica
at 2018-02-01T18:33
at 2018-02-01T18:33

By Jessica
at 2018-02-04T13:49
at 2018-02-04T13:49

By Edith
at 2018-02-07T05:59
at 2018-02-07T05:59

By Catherine
at 2018-02-08T03:40
at 2018-02-08T03:40

By Skylar DavisLinda
at 2018-02-11T19:14
at 2018-02-11T19:14

By Rebecca
at 2018-02-14T10:58
at 2018-02-14T10:58

By Connor
at 2018-02-16T14:53
at 2018-02-16T14:53

By Elma
at 2018-02-17T21:58
at 2018-02-17T21:58

By Kyle
at 2018-02-19T14:15
at 2018-02-19T14:15

By Puput
at 2018-02-20T15:54
at 2018-02-20T15:54

By Ida
at 2018-02-24T20:17
at 2018-02-24T20:17

By George
at 2018-02-26T21:35
at 2018-02-26T21:35

By Tracy
at 2018-03-02T05:26
at 2018-03-02T05:26

By Edward Lewis
at 2018-03-04T07:55
at 2018-03-04T07:55

By Tracy
at 2018-03-05T23:35
at 2018-03-05T23:35

By Eden
at 2018-03-07T13:02
at 2018-03-07T13:02

By Jessica
at 2018-03-08T08:16
at 2018-03-08T08:16

By Sierra Rose
at 2018-03-10T05:09
at 2018-03-10T05:09

By Jacky
at 2018-03-10T06:59
at 2018-03-10T06:59

By Carolina Franco
at 2018-03-14T23:47
at 2018-03-14T23:47

By Queena
at 2018-03-18T04:26
at 2018-03-18T04:26

By Bethany
at 2018-03-21T16:47
at 2018-03-21T16:47

By Una
at 2018-03-24T11:13
at 2018-03-24T11:13

By Donna
at 2018-03-26T13:34
at 2018-03-26T13:34

By Catherine
at 2018-03-30T01:38
at 2018-03-30T01:38

By Robert
at 2018-03-30T21:43
at 2018-03-30T21:43

By Agatha
at 2018-04-02T07:16
at 2018-04-02T07:16

By Quanna
at 2018-04-05T19:53
at 2018-04-05T19:53
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at 2018-04-11T02:01
at 2018-04-11T02:01
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