終於明白“船”是什麼意思了 - 保養

Gary avatar
By Gary
at 2022-08-30T18:41

Table of Contents



車輛工程在描述基本的底盤特性會用K&C

K是kinematics:懸吊連桿等機構運動特性

C是compliance:連桿或襯套的彈性變形



一般的乘用車(3噸以下&軸距3m以下)

都可以透過標準機台試驗

量測車身底盤、輪心、輪胎觸地點三者的拉線式位移計(位移/角度變化)

以及量測個別輪受力的六分力計(力/力矩)

再藉由力、力矩、位移、角度變化等曲線關係,了解一款車底盤特性



AB Dynamics SPMM 5000
https://i.imgur.com/AiEisHz.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjxbMSgbqoU

MTS Kinematic & Compliance (K&C) Deflection Measurement Systems
https://i.imgur.com/H00CZ4v.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppcB2vNM2SQ

兩家最常見的K&C試驗機台,造價至少200萬鎂起跳

主流車廠會使用該設備,比較一堆同級競品(例如現代這方面做很勤)



車子先整備好,包含標準胎壓、空車、滿油,椅子前後上下都調到中間狀態

然後在機台上進行一系列標準測項

垂跳(Vertical Bounce):
直線行駛下,垂向運動特性

側傾(Roll):
轉彎或側風下,側傾時的運動學特性

側向力(Lateral Compliance)
同向(in phase):忽略側傾,轉向下,車身/懸吊/副車架變形
異向(anti-phase):忽略側傾,轉向下,懸吊變形

回正力矩 (Aligning Torque Compliance)
同向(in phase):轉向回正力矩效應,懸吊/轉向系統變形
異向(anti-phase):轉向回正力矩效應,懸吊變形

縱向力 (Lateral Compliance)
加減速、路面衝擊、轉向(煞車)效應

轉向 (Steering Kinematics)
轉向齒比(方向盤/輪轉角)、阿克曼轉向角度(左/右輪相依性)

另外有些項目還會根據引擎有無發動、煞車有無踩踏來分別量測

https://i.imgur.com/2i3x7tu.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/o8kl1aK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7TqqjwG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/YzP6C7S.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/GCqMBZz.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wz8MS10.jpg



垂向彈跳主要跟彈簧剛性有關,懸吊觸底時有緩衝塊,行程過長時會由避震器拉住到
https://i.imgur.com/oSA6ziG.jpg

定負載下的側傾值跟防傾桿剛性有關
https://i.imgur.com/2brIlpN.jpg

側向力和方向機剛性有關
https://i.imgur.com/IY4gcY9.jpg

縱向力則是跟懸吊件的襯套有關,例如煞車點頭可替換剛性較強的襯套改善
https://i.imgur.com/qOu2SLD.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/hSGHfTp.jpg



至於為啥要特別提到"定負載"下的側傾

因為動態會改變的負載(速度),會牽涉到避震器的阻尼力

會另外針對避震器量測速度對阻尼力的關係

低速阻尼力(0.2或0.3m/s以下)與車輛動態操控性有關

高速阻尼力則牽涉到整車結構可靠耐久計算



通常回彈阻尼力>壓縮阻尼力
https://i.imgur.com/E32tUpe.jpg

乘用車的設定介於digressive和linear之間
https://i.imgur.com/sWSedy9.jpg

digressive偏向有利於操控的設定,linear則是舒適設定



而RAV4的避震器阻尼力曲線長這樣,比較接近linear
https://i.imgur.com/w5pTImj.jpg

低速阻尼力不足,因此側傾晃動抑制沒那麼好

加上2.0配的Direct-Shift變速箱,一檔齒輪和CVT切換約在時速30左右(有頓挫)

在市區時速20~30轉彎還滿容易遇到的

大概是這樣



所以為啥有人說原廠黑筒換KYB藍筒明顯有感

因為阻尼增加(特別是低速下)

再來隨著里程累積避震器阻尼多少會衰退,因此老車明顯晃動抑制不佳



然後滿多駕駛胎壓根本沒在顧,一年回廠保養一次才打到40之類的

這又是另一大變因了

更別提路上的駕駛有千百種開車方式




※ 引述《azman1018z (冷漠的旁觀)》之銘言:
: 上個月去南部出差時
: 叫了多元計程車 來了台Rav4
: 不管是市區還是快速道路
: 我坐在後座的體驗就是頭暈想吐
: 要多晃有多晃
: 然後隔天要回北部時,
: 好巧不巧叫的車又來了台Rav4
: 以為又會一路頭暈到高鐵站,結果一路平穩,煞車加速不晃,過坑不搖
: 然後我就跟司機閒聊了一下:
: 我昨天也是搭Rav4 可是昨天的司機開起來就超搖,我還暈車…,你技術就很好 完全不暈
: 然後司機就回我:
: 那當然啦,我花了好幾萬改避震,怎麼可能會晃

--

All Comments

Heather avatar
By Heather
at 2022-08-31T00:31
請問錢大,高速阻尼不足連續坑洞超級跳有救嗎?
Dinah avatar
By Dinah
at 2022-08-31T06:21
這篇好厲害
Ursula avatar
By Ursula
at 2022-08-31T12:11
分析手法/模型/結論都說清楚了,這篇該M
Christine avatar
By Christine
at 2022-08-31T18:01
推ㄟˉ
Kama avatar
By Kama
at 2022-08-31T23:51
推一個 感謝您的發文讓小弟學習
Hardy avatar
By Hardy
at 2022-09-01T05:41
還 挺 屌 的
Emily avatar
By Emily
at 2022-09-01T11:31
了解 原來是這樣 但不能調484沒救了XD
Suhail Hany avatar
By Suhail Hany
at 2022-09-01T17:21
錢大補充的 其實以前就有高低速可變阻尼的避震
器 也如錢大所說 低速阻尼強 高速反之 我們
這裡講的低高速不是車速
Poppy avatar
By Poppy
at 2022-09-01T23:11
這是論文吧
Bethany avatar
By Bethany
at 2022-09-02T05:01
太認真了 一般來說就是看到牌子先說船keke
Jack avatar
By Jack
at 2022-09-02T10:51
ML350跟RX300哪個船 開過的人就知道
Christine avatar
By Christine
at 2022-09-02T16:41
認真給推
Leila avatar
By Leila
at 2022-09-02T22:30
新的Rav4比上一代重心低不少 差距也很大
Noah avatar
By Noah
at 2022-09-03T04:20
我看這些要幹嘛
Donna avatar
By Donna
at 2022-09-03T03:59
專業
Andrew avatar
By Andrew
at 2022-09-03T09:49
Thomas avatar
By Thomas
at 2022-09-03T03:59
有辦法在查閱到這些資料嗎?想比較同級車的差異
Tom avatar
By Tom
at 2022-09-03T09:49
可以做一些不同車種的比較嗎? :) 例如操控或舒適見
Sandy avatar
By Sandy
at 2022-09-03T03:59
長的車, 豪車又有多好呢? 這篇很有趣
Isla avatar
By Isla
at 2022-09-03T09:49
寫論文膩
Edith avatar
By Edith
at 2022-09-03T03:59
你這篇是原創嗎?
Andrew avatar
By Andrew
at 2022-09-03T09:49
很想看最近吹很大的mg到底如何,是否真的像宣傳說的
操控優良
Gary avatar
By Gary
at 2022-09-03T03:59
這很專業,應該要M起來!感謝分享!
Lucy avatar
By Lucy
at 2022-09-03T09:49
推專業文
Hamiltion avatar
By Hamiltion
at 2022-09-03T03:59
太專業了
Puput avatar
By Puput
at 2022-09-03T09:49
推錢大
Zora avatar
By Zora
at 2022-09-03T03:59
好猛!
Rachel avatar
By Rachel
at 2022-09-03T09:49
看到沒有 這就是專業
Rachel avatar
By Rachel
at 2022-09-03T03:59
和泰,我看起來像是有這種機器嗎?
Joseph avatar
By Joseph
at 2022-09-03T09:49
專業
Ida avatar
By Ida
at 2022-09-03T03:59
專業推
Tom avatar
By Tom
at 2022-09-03T09:49
你車輛系的吼
Vanessa avatar
By Vanessa
at 2022-09-03T03:59
聽在車廠工作過的同事說特斯拉的懸吊曲線和教科書的
是相反的,不知是不是真的?
Lauren avatar
By Lauren
at 2022-09-03T09:49
Ida avatar
By Ida
at 2022-09-03T03:59
請問台灣學歷最高汽車科系畢業的人是誰
Dorothy avatar
By Dorothy
at 2022-09-03T09:49
專業文受用無窮
Delia avatar
By Delia
at 2022-09-03T03:59
閣下避震器係?
Olga avatar
By Olga
at 2022-09-03T09:49
錢大 小弟說的並不是真的低速強高速弱 而是
透過一個閥門在高低速轉換而已 錢大如果有興趣
Isla avatar
By Isla
at 2022-09-03T03:59
的話可以孤狗koni的避震器 他也有圖表可以看
小弟也有用過類似構造的避震
Iris avatar
By Iris
at 2022-09-03T09:49
推一下,豐田原廠應該就知道這些參數,但還是故意做
Necoo avatar
By Necoo
at 2022-09-03T03:59
的軟趴趴的
Ethan avatar
By Ethan
at 2022-09-03T09:49
推專業文
Thomas avatar
By Thomas
at 2022-09-03T03:59
推推
Hedy avatar
By Hedy
at 2022-09-03T09:49
Hedwig avatar
By Hedwig
at 2022-09-03T03:59
推,專業文
Yuri avatar
By Yuri
at 2022-09-03T09:49
推,優質專業文
Lily avatar
By Lily
at 2022-09-03T03:59
Ingrid avatar
By Ingrid
at 2022-09-03T09:49
路過推
Emily avatar
By Emily
at 2022-09-03T03:59
推專業。反觀鍵盤酸民...
Tom avatar
By Tom
at 2022-09-03T09:49
不過這應該就是量出一個最終結果?
Frederica avatar
By Frederica
at 2022-09-03T03:59
專業
Madame avatar
By Madame
at 2022-09-03T09:49
例如我拿一台W140去量 可能也只能量出一些底盤軟軟
George avatar
By George
at 2022-09-03T03:59
的數據 但實際上廠商如何達成還是要逐一檢視底盤?
Oliver avatar
By Oliver
at 2022-09-03T09:49
所以還是沒說到牛頭為什麼比較船啊
Elizabeth avatar
By Elizabeth
at 2022-09-03T03:59
而且我好奇 如果一台很軟的底盤去改硬避震
是不是可以造成某些數據的改變 看起來是改善底盤
但實際上路可能是底盤軟軟的但四顆輪子很硬很跳的
Isabella avatar
By Isabella
at 2022-09-03T09:49
違和感 這種均衡性可以看出來嗎?
Audriana avatar
By Audriana
at 2022-09-03T03:59
推專業
Annie avatar
By Annie
at 2022-09-03T09:49
太專業了看不懂給推
Elvira avatar
By Elvira
at 2022-09-03T03:59
一定要存起來的好文
比一堆車評有料多了
Charlie avatar
By Charlie
at 2022-09-03T09:49
感謝回覆
Barb Cronin avatar
By Barb Cronin
at 2022-09-03T03:59
推專業
Callum avatar
By Callum
at 2022-09-03T09:49
好文
Margaret avatar
By Margaret
at 2022-09-03T03:59
跟我想的一樣
Yuri avatar
By Yuri
at 2022-09-03T09:49
推專業好文
Hazel avatar
By Hazel
at 2022-09-03T03:59
Freda avatar
By Freda
at 2022-09-03T09:49
受教了 太詳盡了
Elvira avatar
By Elvira
at 2022-09-03T03:59
推推 反觀某垃圾文還一堆推
Franklin avatar
By Franklin
at 2022-09-03T09:49
長姿勢了
Lydia avatar
By Lydia
at 2022-09-03T03:59
原來如此
Ivy avatar
By Ivy
at 2022-09-03T09:49
認真推
Eden avatar
By Eden
at 2022-09-03T03:59
專業
Rosalind avatar
By Rosalind
at 2022-09-03T09:49
必推
Queena avatar
By Queena
at 2022-09-03T03:59
推,比一些用體感回覆的專業太多了
Skylar Davis avatar
By Skylar Davis
at 2022-09-03T09:49
Irma avatar
By Irma
at 2022-09-03T03:59
推 超專業!
Lily avatar
By Lily
at 2022-09-03T09:49
趕快推文 免得別人以為我看不懂(真的看不懂)
Elma avatar
By Elma
at 2022-09-03T03:59
原來是這樣數據化的
Vanessa avatar
By Vanessa
at 2022-09-03T09:49
承認看不懂
David avatar
By David
at 2022-09-03T03:59
專業推
Barb Cronin avatar
By Barb Cronin
at 2022-09-03T09:49
優文推
Yuri avatar
By Yuri
at 2022-09-03T03:59
好猛,都看不懂
Gary avatar
By Gary
at 2022-09-03T09:49
Robert avatar
By Robert
at 2022-09-03T03:59
專業
Brianna avatar
By Brianna
at 2022-09-03T09:49
專業推
Rebecca avatar
By Rebecca
at 2022-09-03T03:59
結論:toyota造船不是造車
Hazel avatar
By Hazel
at 2022-09-03T09:49
看不懂,推
Lucy avatar
By Lucy
at 2022-09-03T03:59
Rebecca avatar
By Rebecca
at 2022-09-03T09:49
也不能說體感心得就是垃圾資訊,當然輔佐儀器檢測更
有說服力,請教一下麋鹿測試也跟這個有關係嗎
Necoo avatar
By Necoo
at 2022-09-03T03:59
Caroline avatar
By Caroline
at 2022-09-03T09:49
不管啦!頭又大就是三……咦咦咦?
Megan avatar
By Megan
at 2022-09-03T03:59
應該是有感覺的舒適才會賣錢,要操控?去買暴力鴨啊
Madame avatar
By Madame
at 2022-09-03T09:49
Dorothy avatar
By Dorothy
at 2022-09-03T03:59
感謝詳細講解
Queena avatar
By Queena
at 2022-09-03T09:49
好猛
Tristan Cohan avatar
By Tristan Cohan
at 2022-09-03T03:59
認真給推
Una avatar
By Una
at 2022-09-03T09:49
Hedwig avatar
By Hedwig
at 2022-09-03T03:59
Robert avatar
By Robert
at 2022-09-03T09:49
太專業
Queena avatar
By Queena
at 2022-09-03T03:59
專業推
Skylar DavisLinda avatar
By Skylar DavisLinda
at 2022-09-03T09:49
專業推
Jack avatar
By Jack
at 2022-09-03T03:59
有數據
Quintina avatar
By Quintina
at 2022-09-03T09:49
太專業了
Isla avatar
By Isla
at 2022-09-03T03:59
不管解釋再多都無法否認牛頭牌在懸吊系統上標新立異
Zanna avatar
By Zanna
at 2022-09-03T09:49
推專業文
Joe avatar
By Joe
at 2022-09-03T03:59
看車版長知識!
Adele avatar
By Adele
at 2022-09-03T09:49
必存好文
Dorothy avatar
By Dorothy
at 2022-09-03T03:59
你避震系?
Olga avatar
By Olga
at 2022-09-03T09:49
錢大沒去車廠工作真是汽車業的損失
Daph Bay avatar
By Daph Bay
at 2022-09-03T03:59
專業好文
Caroline avatar
By Caroline
at 2022-09-03T09:49
最後一段似乎在說 兩百萬美金有花跟沒花差異不大
Agatha avatar
By Agatha
at 2022-09-03T03:59
嗯,沒錯
Megan avatar
By Megan
at 2022-09-03T09:49
好鬼 專業推
Sarah avatar
By Sarah
at 2022-09-03T03:59
跪 推
Leila avatar
By Leila
at 2022-09-03T09:49
哇喔 太專業
Candice avatar
By Candice
at 2022-09-03T03:59
馬粉酸民要的不是專業 是要聽自己想聽的話
Eartha avatar
By Eartha
at 2022-09-03T09:49
收藏了,推
Elma avatar
By Elma
at 2022-09-03T03:59
順便請教錢大,改短彈簧影響到的會是哪一個部分
Cara avatar
By Cara
at 2022-09-03T09:49
豐田就是每項都60分,想要沒有明顯弱項的唯一選擇
Olga avatar
By Olga
at 2022-09-03T03:59
Regina avatar
By Regina
at 2022-09-03T09:49
推 專業分享
Annie avatar
By Annie
at 2022-09-03T03:59
數據都擺出來了 還能一直「我覺得」的真是..自創標
準很好玩嗎lol
Olive avatar
By Olive
at 2022-09-03T09:49
推專業錢大
Quintina avatar
By Quintina
at 2022-09-03T03:59
推專業分享
Catherine avatar
By Catherine
at 2022-09-03T09:49
推專業
George avatar
By George
at 2022-09-03T03:59
專業到有些看不太懂,先推推
Thomas avatar
By Thomas
at 2022-09-03T09:49
錢大:開學囉,上課囉,這些指標先記下來後面會用到
William avatar
By William
at 2022-09-03T03:59
Kristin avatar
By Kristin
at 2022-09-03T09:49
長知識
Callum avatar
By Callum
at 2022-09-03T03:59
三角架襯套,怎麼又是你的問題
Jake avatar
By Jake
at 2022-09-03T09:49
專業推 這好有趣!
Caroline avatar
By Caroline
at 2022-09-03T03:59
Candice avatar
By Candice
at 2022-09-03T09:49
專業推
Ivy avatar
By Ivy
at 2022-09-03T03:59
Olivia avatar
By Olivia
at 2022-09-03T09:49
Lily avatar
By Lily
at 2022-09-03T03:59
專業文推一下
Faithe avatar
By Faithe
at 2022-09-03T09:49
其實RAV4的彈性系偏軟 但避震器設定不像上世代弱
Vanessa avatar
By Vanessa
at 2022-09-03T03:59
如果都有KC資料 其實可以回推算一下阻尼比就知道了
Kelly avatar
By Kelly
at 2022-09-03T09:49
雖然看不太懂 不過肯定是我爛 認真文給推
Joseph avatar
By Joseph
at 2022-09-03T03:59
專業推

國1嘉義路段緩撞車遭撞擊 後車又追撞釀3

Harry avatar
By Harry
at 2022-08-30T17:55
國1嘉義路段緩撞車遭撞擊 後車又追撞釀3車毀損 2022/08/30 17:45 〔記者林宜樟/嘉義報導〕國道一號中山高今天下午發生緩撞車遭撞意外,一輛白色自小 客車行經中山高嘉義路段時,疑似因未注意車前狀況追撞新營工務段委外清掃作業緩撞車 ,白色自小客車撞擊後停於中線車道,另1部白色自小客車因閃避不及,再 ...

KIA EV6 GT-Line露營實測!

Suhail Hany avatar
By Suhail Hany
at 2022-08-30T16:32
※ [本文轉錄自 EV 看板 #1Z3RwWer ] 作者: david841015 (Wayne) 看板: EV 標題: [汽車] KIA EV6 GT-Line露營實測! 時間: Tue Aug 30 15:39:07 2022 文章來源:https://racingcharger.tw/?p=301 ...

機械車位電磁閥如果壞了會怎樣

Gary avatar
By Gary
at 2022-08-30T15:34
※ 引述《pttkobe ()》之銘言: : 如題 : 廠商保養機械車位時說電磁閥更新要7000元 : 想請問電磁閥壞了不換會怎樣? : 感謝 : ----- : Sent from JPTT on my Realme RMX3241. 通常PLC、微晶片控制電磁閥,電磁閥再控制氣動閥、油壓閥 電磁閥會不 ...

現在的停車方式越來越狂了

Rebecca avatar
By Rebecca
at 2022-08-30T14:29
※ 引述《soulmola (絕頂優文大師)》之銘言: : 如題喇 : 上週末開車出門買菜菜 : 經過某路段 : 看見有台賓士停這裡就直接下車買東西了 : 害人家行人都要繞過他 : 真是氣死我惹! : 這種停車方式真是不應該 : https://i.imgur.com/NMtO4ky.jpg 你應該是沒在屏 ...

機械車位電磁閥如果壞了會怎樣

Ula avatar
By Ula
at 2022-08-30T12:33
如題 廠商保養機械車位時說電磁閥更新要7000元 想請問電磁閥壞了不換會怎樣? 感謝 ----- Sent from JPTT on my Realme RMX3241. - ...