電車真的比較環保嗎? - 汽車

By Joseph
at 2022-11-16T19:02
at 2022-11-16T19:02
Table of Contents
※ 引述《wisdom ()》之銘言:
: 從能源利用效率這個角度來思考
: 一度電是3600kJ
: 汽油的熱值是7800kCal/L=32760kJ/L
: 純電車一度電以現今的技術來看,跑7-8km算基本要求(我納N7的電耗是13度百公里,一
: 度電超過7km了)
: 就以7km每度電,可以算出每行駛1km消耗的能量是520kJ。
: 用這個能量消耗來評估燃油車(含油電)
: 燃油車的油耗需要達到63km/L,在能量利用上才跟純電打平
: 你舉幾台不用靠外部充電能達到這個條件的油電車來聽聽看。
: 台灣買得到的油電車,不依賴外部充電的話,沒有超過30km/L的,能源利用率連純電的一
: 半都不到。
: 的確能源利用率跟環保與否不會是完全直接相關(但有相關性應該不會有人有意見)
: 但兩倍的差異,你要在發電過程多不環保才能把差異追平?
這裡的計算方式對油車不公平
電動車的能量流程是這樣的
燃料的化學能-->熱能-->電能-->電池的化學能-->電能-->汽車動能
汽油車與油電車能量的流程是
燃料化學能-->熱能-->汽車動能
引文計算方式汽油車全程計入,電動車只計算電能轉換成化學能之後的那一段
正確的方式應該如下
1km消耗520kJ電能,火力發電廠熱效率以台電為準是46%
故該輛電動車1km消耗520/0.46 kJ的燃料,相當於一公升汽油跑29km
其實並沒有比油電車節省到多少燃料
--
: 從能源利用效率這個角度來思考
: 一度電是3600kJ
: 汽油的熱值是7800kCal/L=32760kJ/L
: 純電車一度電以現今的技術來看,跑7-8km算基本要求(我納N7的電耗是13度百公里,一
: 度電超過7km了)
: 就以7km每度電,可以算出每行駛1km消耗的能量是520kJ。
: 用這個能量消耗來評估燃油車(含油電)
: 燃油車的油耗需要達到63km/L,在能量利用上才跟純電打平
: 你舉幾台不用靠外部充電能達到這個條件的油電車來聽聽看。
: 台灣買得到的油電車,不依賴外部充電的話,沒有超過30km/L的,能源利用率連純電的一
: 半都不到。
: 的確能源利用率跟環保與否不會是完全直接相關(但有相關性應該不會有人有意見)
: 但兩倍的差異,你要在發電過程多不環保才能把差異追平?
這裡的計算方式對油車不公平
電動車的能量流程是這樣的
燃料的化學能-->熱能-->電能-->電池的化學能-->電能-->汽車動能
汽油車與油電車能量的流程是
燃料化學能-->熱能-->汽車動能
引文計算方式汽油車全程計入,電動車只計算電能轉換成化學能之後的那一段
正確的方式應該如下
1km消耗520kJ電能,火力發電廠熱效率以台電為準是46%
故該輛電動車1km消耗520/0.46 kJ的燃料,相當於一公升汽油跑29km
其實並沒有比油電車節省到多少燃料
--
All Comments

By Daniel
at 2022-11-18T11:39
at 2022-11-18T11:39

By Skylar Davis
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Donna
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44
比一般市售車少

By Ina
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07
廠產電怎麼沒算煉油廠煉油

By Mary
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44
再浪費能量蓋加油站 還要人職守 再把這些能量用內

By Bennie
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Charlie
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Caitlin
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Caitlin
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By William
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Iris
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Tristan Cohan
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07
機率有多少?

By John
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44
所以他們計算電的時候都從電廠開始算,但算汽油的
時候油都會自動提煉好出現在油箱,別怪他們

By Puput
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Edwina
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Callum
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07
,日常必需品生產需要、大型載具運送物資需要、軍
事用需要、旅遊等等也需要,真的要脫離油,可能我
孫子都不在了,就連澱粉最愛的電車,其部份材料跟
運送等等,都還是靠油來的

By Rae
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Oliver
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Ursula
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44
車好了 有嗎?

By Jacob
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07
些人改口 如果有那天的話

By Hedy
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Leila
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Delia
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Emily
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Odelette
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Irma
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07
廠產電的消耗,倒是油從來都會自動冒出來
更慘的是即使這樣比還常常比輸

By Annie
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Tracy
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Jack
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Gilbert
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Ethan
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44
燃油廠跟燃煤廠頂多40% 但靠汽電共生跟燃天然氣
可以到60%

By Charlotte
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07
策

By Frederica
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Olivia
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07
電能轉動能因為沒有機械摩擦 省很多效率

By Cara
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Zora
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Hedwig
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Elma
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Rae
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Yedda
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07
而 Carnot 是溫度決定效率

By Ida
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44
而電能轉動能沒有這個問題

By Victoria
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07
氫氣主要來源也是煉油的副產品

By Heather
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44
都還是比內燃機引擎效率更高
內燃機唯一存活之道是搭配油電

By Anonymous
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Annie
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Daph Bay
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Tom
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44
所以說toyota粉整天打自己臉就是這樣

By Jacky
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Erin
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44
那個比較環保那個比較污染啊= =

By Annie
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07
電車

By Gilbert
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Tristan Cohan
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Sarah
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Jacob
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Damian
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Frederica
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Donna
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Harry
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07
論 不過至少是比新聞可靠就是了~

By Adele
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Erin
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Frederic
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Quanna
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Lily
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44
都認為是自己的問題 如果確定 那其實這個社會浪費了

By Edward Lewis
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07
發現問題,電車這個可是直接挑戰原先油車廠商的利
益,油車鐵定在那篇出來的當下就想找問題推翻了啦

By Damian
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Tristan Cohan
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07
,檔人財路欸

By Bennie
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Erin
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Brianna
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Cara
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Carol
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Sarah
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Lucy
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44
寫得很清楚,不信這個然後去信連汽油都會自動生成到
油箱的鄉民?

By Charlotte
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07
出錢養他們的大車廠 政治本錢有多夠力不用懷疑 連他
們都只能認賠放棄內燃機技術壁壘把百年積累的優勢當
作打水漂 要能有什麼縫可以鑽可以操作的他們會找不
到嗎

By Daniel
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Genevieve
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07
信 講難聽的啦 只要他還沒被推翻的一天 就接受他是

By Faithe
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44
alzheimer那件事也是用科學的手段去推翻的 在那之前

By Sierra Rose
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Frederic
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Dinah
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07
感覺如何如何

By Margaret
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Dinah
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Yedda
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Bennie
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07
對就太呵呵了

By Dora
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44
其他車廠很多都不是只把未來限縮在電車而是其他諸
如碳中和燃料和氫燃料內燃機/燃料電池等等一起發展
的時候,未來的答案就很明顯了,尤其第一車廠豐田
一再發新聞稿強調未來會多技術發展的時候

By Anonymous
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Oscar
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Mary
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Charlie
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Brianna
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Iris
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Jake
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Heather
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Charlotte
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07
重組成更穩定的分子共價鍵

By Hardy
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Agatha
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Isabella
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By John
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07
現在電廠的,還是要挖要運輸,不然藻礁是在吵什麼,
另外台灣碳排放佔最大宗就是發電產生的,其他的工
商業加上運輸的碳排全部加起來才跟發電產生的差不多

By Regina
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Oliver
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By George
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Oliver
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Jacob
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Kristin
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Enid
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Edward Lewis
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Lily
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Eartha
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07
燃燒室點火那瞬間開始計算。這樣才是對油車最公平

By Ula
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44
油車引擎熱效率只有12-30%

By Tom
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By John
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44
實際上就是12-30%之間動來動去

By Elma
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Isabella
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Olga
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Brianna
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Hardy
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Hamiltion
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44
效率比燃油車低的情況下,大約開三萬多公里兩者會
打平,雖然是國外的資料,但電車開的里程數越高,

By Jake
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07
了model3沒多久後就撞爛不能開了

By Edwina
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Ethan
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Barb Cronin
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Charlotte
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Kelly
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44

By Anthony
at 2022-11-16T19:07
at 2022-11-16T19:07

By Wallis
at 2022-11-18T11:44
at 2022-11-18T11:44
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