Toyota表示:慢點推柴油油電,對EV持懷疑 - 汽車

By Gary
at 2017-06-29T02:15
at 2017-06-29T02:15
Table of Contents
※ 引述《maniaque (maniaque)》之銘言:
: 標題: Re: [新聞] Toyota表示:慢點推柴油油電,對EV持懷疑
: 時間: Thu Jun 29 01:11:43 2017
:
: 簡單的講:車用能源可攜性若無法實作,沒有太大的未來可言.
早就實作了,只是不需要,所以沒落了
: In city or city to city 或許還ok(公車大概未來是 EV 化定了)
:
: 但是,汽車的基本功能,不就是上山下海任我行?
:
: 這一點,EV車做得到嗎?
:
: 只要一個沒能源而 刁車
:
: 汽油車柴油車油電車(PHEV or Hybrid),都可以叫一輛機車甚至卡踏車
: 拿油桶去裝油來救車.(氫氣未來也應該會做出可攜式加氣裝置).
:
: 但,純電動車呢??
:
: 你要把一座超級充電站,建在合歡山嗎?
:
: 就算建在合歡山,那要怎樣把電送到 離充電站 10 公里的EV車??
: 把 EV 車推 10KM 過來?
:
: 連 新世紀福音戰士 的 EVA 都證明,
:
: [純電動, 是救不了世界的]
Tesla規劃當初,就有把移動式充電考慮進去
就是一台卡車上面裝了儲能跟充電系統可以過去幫車主充電
為什麼你沒聽過?
因為這項服務幾乎沒人用
你要上合歡山、上武陵,開油車難道你經過加油站不會把油加滿?
然後傻傻的等開到快沒油了才找小綿羊幫你去買油救急嗎?
我想你不會這麼傻
那你為何會覺得開電動車的人會傻到把車開到沒電了才想到要找充電站?
:
: But 純電車呢? Can You ?
:
: 什麼都要計畫好,幾點到哪邊充電,幾點又到哪邊充電.
:
: 運氣一個不好,到達時,所有的充電樁全都被占滿,
: 又碰到一堆可以充電免錢的,非得把車子充到飽,
:
: 他在旁邊划手機吹冷氣吹爽爽,
:
: 你,行程一整個耽擱了, 你,要怎麼辦?? 撞下去嗎??
又是只有開電動車的會運氣不好,開油車的都不用排隊等加油,好棒棒
: 真的很貴啊....建下去,要建到讓客戶不用顧慮充電問題的數量,
:
: 單單折舊就準備讓 Tesla 吃不消.
請問根據哪來的? 請拿出數字證明
:
: : 那Toyota力推的燃料電池車所需要的加氫站也不便宜
: : 建一座不算土地成本就要3-400萬美元
: : 說快速充電站昂貴,然後選了一個更貴的加氫站?
:
: Toyota 也沒有全押在氫電車.
那Toyota的電動車在哪? 是發表了? 是市售了? 還是賣幾台出去了?
就我所知,連個影子都還沒有
: 那,剛好好死不死,剛好一堆 Tesla Model 開來充電...要怎辦??
:
: 也是排隊啊~~~
:
: 難道可以主張 "我的車剩 5KM 可走,先讓我充~~~~?"
又來了,又是這種開電動車的人會傻到只剩5km才想到要去充電的心態
95%甚至99%的情況車輛都不會一天開超過300km
人回家睡一覺車子順便充電睡醒馬上又是滿滿的電力讓你用
開油車的人還要特地繞路去加油站排隊等加油
: : 在google地圖上找了一下加氫站看是什麼樣子
: : 東京杉並區:http://i.imgur.com/M4yppuU.jpg
: : 一次加一台
: : 東京目黒水素ステーション:http://i.imgur.com/RPs8K40.jpg
: : 一次加兩台
:
: 還在半試驗中,不是嗎?
半試驗? 所以氫氣車開上合歡山沒氫氣了怎麼辦?
: 只能說一句話.
:
: 最好祈禱 921 大停電不要再發生一次.
:
: 最好祈禱颱風天都不要停電
:
: 一停電, 充電站 就葛屁了.
對啦,這種情況加油站都不會關閉,加油站永遠有油不用油罐車送來
: 充電站是營業用電,迴路優先會高過民生用電嗎??
:
: 家裡若沒準備充電設備,先把車子電充飽,怎開??
:
: 那也要看規模,不是嗎??
你看不懂人家在做什麼
不僅是Tesla
Benz BMW 在發展電動車的同時也在做家用儲能系統
最終的目的就是減少對大型電網的依賴,同時使用更多清潔能源
由你的發言可見你對這方面了解不深
你可以先google,或是看看類似這文章
http://www.energytrend.com.tw/news/20170616-14308017.html
懂了後我們再來討論
: 加氫站能源來源不受電力公司限制.
所以加氫站的氫氣會自動變出來?
不需透過車輛運輸? 他不依賴電力公司他會依賴別的 別天真了
另外就如同前面講的,電動車搭配儲能系統就能大幅度的擺脫對電網的依賴
別人沒電用時,至少你能多撐一兩天
如果再搭配上先進國家都在玩的太陽能,節約一點根本不怕沒電沒車用
做電動車的公司
早已經跳脫只限於考慮"車"的用途
從更廣更高的角度去看 車 - 房子 - 能源 這些東西結合在一起
要做哪些改變才能使人類的生活更好更乾淨
Tesla是首先開始著手實現這些想法的公司
但不代表只有他在做
前面提到的Benz、BMW都已經在進行中
日本的Honda雖然還沒有實際行動,但至少提了個願景來
中國就更不用講了,只是拆成很多相對較小的公司
一些在做太陽能、一些做電動車、一些做電池做儲能
電動車的確有不足
但這世界上沒有任何事物是完美的
但只要家裡環境能許可安裝充電設施
就可以滿足你95%甚至是99%的使用情況,每天早上起床都是滿滿的3-400公里能讓你用
偶爾出遠門一天開超過300公里,也有超充能解決充電問題
我相信這已經是能夠滿足99%的需求了
你要拿那1%來攻擊電動車也不是不可以
但請你也別忘了那99%所帶來的好處
你認為那1%重要,也不會有人逼你買電動車
認為99%狀況時電動車帶來的好處更多的人自然就會選擇電動車
另外一提
有多份研究顯示,電動車的平均價格在2025年時就會低過油車
充電速度也會有大的進展
汽油車的優勢已經在快速消失當中
: --
: 標題: Re: [新聞] Toyota表示:慢點推柴油油電,對EV持懷疑
: 時間: Thu Jun 29 01:11:43 2017
:
: 簡單的講:車用能源可攜性若無法實作,沒有太大的未來可言.
早就實作了,只是不需要,所以沒落了
: In city or city to city 或許還ok(公車大概未來是 EV 化定了)
:
: 但是,汽車的基本功能,不就是上山下海任我行?
:
: 這一點,EV車做得到嗎?
:
: 只要一個沒能源而 刁車
:
: 汽油車柴油車油電車(PHEV or Hybrid),都可以叫一輛機車甚至卡踏車
: 拿油桶去裝油來救車.(氫氣未來也應該會做出可攜式加氣裝置).
:
: 但,純電動車呢??
:
: 你要把一座超級充電站,建在合歡山嗎?
:
: 就算建在合歡山,那要怎樣把電送到 離充電站 10 公里的EV車??
: 把 EV 車推 10KM 過來?
:
: 連 新世紀福音戰士 的 EVA 都證明,
:
: [純電動, 是救不了世界的]
Tesla規劃當初,就有把移動式充電考慮進去
就是一台卡車上面裝了儲能跟充電系統可以過去幫車主充電
為什麼你沒聽過?
因為這項服務幾乎沒人用
你要上合歡山、上武陵,開油車難道你經過加油站不會把油加滿?
然後傻傻的等開到快沒油了才找小綿羊幫你去買油救急嗎?
我想你不會這麼傻
那你為何會覺得開電動車的人會傻到把車開到沒電了才想到要找充電站?
:
: But 純電車呢? Can You ?
:
: 什麼都要計畫好,幾點到哪邊充電,幾點又到哪邊充電.
:
: 運氣一個不好,到達時,所有的充電樁全都被占滿,
: 又碰到一堆可以充電免錢的,非得把車子充到飽,
:
: 他在旁邊划手機吹冷氣吹爽爽,
:
: 你,行程一整個耽擱了, 你,要怎麼辦?? 撞下去嗎??
又是只有開電動車的會運氣不好,開油車的都不用排隊等加油,好棒棒
: 真的很貴啊....建下去,要建到讓客戶不用顧慮充電問題的數量,
:
: 單單折舊就準備讓 Tesla 吃不消.
請問根據哪來的? 請拿出數字證明
:
: : 那Toyota力推的燃料電池車所需要的加氫站也不便宜
: : 建一座不算土地成本就要3-400萬美元
: : 說快速充電站昂貴,然後選了一個更貴的加氫站?
:
: Toyota 也沒有全押在氫電車.
那Toyota的電動車在哪? 是發表了? 是市售了? 還是賣幾台出去了?
就我所知,連個影子都還沒有
: 那,剛好好死不死,剛好一堆 Tesla Model 開來充電...要怎辦??
:
: 也是排隊啊~~~
:
: 難道可以主張 "我的車剩 5KM 可走,先讓我充~~~~?"
又來了,又是這種開電動車的人會傻到只剩5km才想到要去充電的心態
95%甚至99%的情況車輛都不會一天開超過300km
人回家睡一覺車子順便充電睡醒馬上又是滿滿的電力讓你用
開油車的人還要特地繞路去加油站排隊等加油
: : 在google地圖上找了一下加氫站看是什麼樣子
: : 東京杉並區:http://i.imgur.com/M4yppuU.jpg
: : 一次加一台
: : 東京目黒水素ステーション:http://i.imgur.com/RPs8K40.jpg
: : 一次加兩台
:
: 還在半試驗中,不是嗎?
半試驗? 所以氫氣車開上合歡山沒氫氣了怎麼辦?
: 只能說一句話.
:
: 最好祈禱 921 大停電不要再發生一次.
:
: 最好祈禱颱風天都不要停電
:
: 一停電, 充電站 就葛屁了.
對啦,這種情況加油站都不會關閉,加油站永遠有油不用油罐車送來
: 充電站是營業用電,迴路優先會高過民生用電嗎??
:
: 家裡若沒準備充電設備,先把車子電充飽,怎開??
:
: 那也要看規模,不是嗎??
你看不懂人家在做什麼
不僅是Tesla
Benz BMW 在發展電動車的同時也在做家用儲能系統
最終的目的就是減少對大型電網的依賴,同時使用更多清潔能源
由你的發言可見你對這方面了解不深
你可以先google,或是看看類似這文章
http://www.energytrend.com.tw/news/20170616-14308017.html
懂了後我們再來討論
: 加氫站能源來源不受電力公司限制.
所以加氫站的氫氣會自動變出來?
不需透過車輛運輸? 他不依賴電力公司他會依賴別的 別天真了
另外就如同前面講的,電動車搭配儲能系統就能大幅度的擺脫對電網的依賴
別人沒電用時,至少你能多撐一兩天
如果再搭配上先進國家都在玩的太陽能,節約一點根本不怕沒電沒車用
做電動車的公司
早已經跳脫只限於考慮"車"的用途
從更廣更高的角度去看 車 - 房子 - 能源 這些東西結合在一起
要做哪些改變才能使人類的生活更好更乾淨
Tesla是首先開始著手實現這些想法的公司
但不代表只有他在做
前面提到的Benz、BMW都已經在進行中
日本的Honda雖然還沒有實際行動,但至少提了個願景來
中國就更不用講了,只是拆成很多相對較小的公司
一些在做太陽能、一些做電動車、一些做電池做儲能
電動車的確有不足
但這世界上沒有任何事物是完美的
但只要家裡環境能許可安裝充電設施
就可以滿足你95%甚至是99%的使用情況,每天早上起床都是滿滿的3-400公里能讓你用
偶爾出遠門一天開超過300公里,也有超充能解決充電問題
我相信這已經是能夠滿足99%的需求了
你要拿那1%來攻擊電動車也不是不可以
但請你也別忘了那99%所帶來的好處
你認為那1%重要,也不會有人逼你買電動車
認為99%狀況時電動車帶來的好處更多的人自然就會選擇電動車
另外一提
有多份研究顯示,電動車的平均價格在2025年時就會低過油車
充電速度也會有大的進展
汽油車的優勢已經在快速消失當中
: --
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at 2017-08-26T15:08
at 2017-08-26T15:08

By Thomas
at 2017-08-30T00:36
at 2017-08-30T00:36

By Thomas
at 2017-09-03T11:28
at 2017-09-03T11:28

By Zanna
at 2017-09-05T00:45
at 2017-09-05T00:45

By Necoo
at 2017-09-09T06:14
at 2017-09-09T06:14

By Anthony
at 2017-09-10T13:55
at 2017-09-10T13:55

By Yuri
at 2017-09-13T20:32
at 2017-09-13T20:32

By Agatha
at 2017-09-18T05:37
at 2017-09-18T05:37

By Jacob
at 2017-09-21T21:42
at 2017-09-21T21:42

By Agnes
at 2017-09-26T21:19
at 2017-09-26T21:19

By Elizabeth
at 2017-09-30T17:55
at 2017-09-30T17:55

By David
at 2017-10-04T11:09
at 2017-10-04T11:09

By Queena
at 2017-10-07T13:35
at 2017-10-07T13:35

By Dora
at 2017-10-12T12:58
at 2017-10-12T12:58

By Faithe
at 2017-10-14T02:44
at 2017-10-14T02:44

By Delia
at 2017-10-16T02:43
at 2017-10-16T02:43

By Vanessa
at 2017-10-18T23:30
at 2017-10-18T23:30

By Andy
at 2017-10-22T01:52
at 2017-10-22T01:52

By Steve
at 2017-10-22T15:17
at 2017-10-22T15:17

By Bethany
at 2017-10-26T23:57
at 2017-10-26T23:57

By Kelly
at 2017-10-30T00:56
at 2017-10-30T00:56

By Tristan Cohan
at 2017-11-03T12:40
at 2017-11-03T12:40

By Dinah
at 2017-11-04T09:25
at 2017-11-04T09:25

By Carolina Franco
at 2017-11-08T05:34
at 2017-11-08T05:34

By Edwina
at 2017-11-10T10:57
at 2017-11-10T10:57

By Edwina
at 2017-11-14T07:32
at 2017-11-14T07:32

By Kyle
at 2017-11-16T03:19
at 2017-11-16T03:19

By David
at 2017-11-19T19:23
at 2017-11-19T19:23

By Audriana
at 2017-11-23T09:46
at 2017-11-23T09:46

By Aaliyah
at 2017-11-26T23:45
at 2017-11-26T23:45

By Dora
at 2017-11-27T21:17
at 2017-11-27T21:17

By Robert
at 2017-11-28T14:55
at 2017-11-28T14:55

By Queena
at 2017-11-29T16:50
at 2017-11-29T16:50

By Edwina
at 2017-12-02T04:54
at 2017-12-02T04:54

By Ivy
at 2017-12-03T04:52
at 2017-12-03T04:52

By Delia
at 2017-12-07T21:36
at 2017-12-07T21:36

By Sarah
at 2017-12-11T15:56
at 2017-12-11T15:56

By Jacob
at 2017-12-14T01:01
at 2017-12-14T01:01

By Suhail Hany
at 2017-12-16T17:38
at 2017-12-16T17:38

By Blanche
at 2017-12-19T15:40
at 2017-12-19T15:40

By Dora
at 2017-12-21T20:30
at 2017-12-21T20:30

By Leila
at 2017-12-26T05:36
at 2017-12-26T05:36

By Hedda
at 2017-12-28T03:53
at 2017-12-28T03:53

By Elvira
at 2018-01-01T19:24
at 2018-01-01T19:24

By Gary
at 2018-01-04T10:56
at 2018-01-04T10:56

By Audriana
at 2018-01-06T12:39
at 2018-01-06T12:39

By Skylar Davis
at 2018-01-08T18:00
at 2018-01-08T18:00

By Oscar
at 2018-01-13T05:40
at 2018-01-13T05:40

By Frederic
at 2018-01-16T18:16
at 2018-01-16T18:16

By Odelette
at 2018-01-18T02:07
at 2018-01-18T02:07

By Regina
at 2018-01-20T00:37
at 2018-01-20T00:37

By Harry
at 2018-01-21T23:38
at 2018-01-21T23:38

By Brianna
at 2018-01-24T08:28
at 2018-01-24T08:28

By Heather
at 2018-01-25T11:50
at 2018-01-25T11:50

By Annie
at 2018-01-26T02:36
at 2018-01-26T02:36

By Jessica
at 2018-01-26T13:30
at 2018-01-26T13:30

By Sandy
at 2018-01-29T03:12
at 2018-01-29T03:12

By Tom
at 2018-02-02T14:58
at 2018-02-02T14:58

By Hardy
at 2018-02-07T10:44
at 2018-02-07T10:44

By Elizabeth
at 2018-02-08T07:16
at 2018-02-08T07:16

By Callum
at 2018-02-11T05:25
at 2018-02-11T05:25

By Una
at 2018-02-15T10:33
at 2018-02-15T10:33

By Puput
at 2018-02-16T14:19
at 2018-02-16T14:19

By Gary
at 2018-02-18T12:07
at 2018-02-18T12:07

By Belly
at 2018-02-20T16:40
at 2018-02-20T16:40

By Zora
at 2018-02-25T09:15
at 2018-02-25T09:15

By Eartha
at 2018-02-28T23:20
at 2018-02-28T23:20

By Rosalind
at 2018-03-05T05:11
at 2018-03-05T05:11

By Regina
at 2018-03-05T22:28
at 2018-03-05T22:28

By Elizabeth
at 2018-03-09T13:54
at 2018-03-09T13:54

By Tristan Cohan
at 2018-03-14T13:22
at 2018-03-14T13:22

By Iris
at 2018-03-16T22:03
at 2018-03-16T22:03

By Carol
at 2018-03-19T01:12
at 2018-03-19T01:12

By James
at 2018-03-22T13:02
at 2018-03-22T13:02

By Mason
at 2018-03-26T17:34
at 2018-03-26T17:34

By Tristan Cohan
at 2018-03-30T19:10
at 2018-03-30T19:10

By Annie
at 2018-03-30T22:55
at 2018-03-30T22:55

By Hazel
at 2018-03-31T16:25
at 2018-03-31T16:25

By Hazel
at 2018-03-31T19:35
at 2018-03-31T19:35

By Mia
at 2018-04-05T10:05
at 2018-04-05T10:05

By Freda
at 2018-04-08T08:30
at 2018-04-08T08:30

By Kelly
at 2018-04-13T03:34
at 2018-04-13T03:34

By Rae
at 2018-04-14T17:56
at 2018-04-14T17:56

By Heather
at 2018-04-15T22:52
at 2018-04-15T22:52

By Jessica
at 2018-04-17T12:57
at 2018-04-17T12:57

By Gary
at 2018-04-22T09:53
at 2018-04-22T09:53

By Susan
at 2018-04-24T03:19
at 2018-04-24T03:19

By Ida
at 2018-04-28T12:28
at 2018-04-28T12:28

By Leila
at 2018-04-29T16:06
at 2018-04-29T16:06

By Ingrid
at 2018-05-04T13:54
at 2018-05-04T13:54
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By Christine
at 2018-05-06T23:22
at 2018-05-06T23:22

By Agatha
at 2018-05-11T17:11
at 2018-05-11T17:11
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By Hedy
at 2018-05-15T21:19
at 2018-05-15T21:19
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By Charlotte
at 2018-05-16T14:47
at 2018-05-16T14:47
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By Agnes
at 2018-05-17T09:51
at 2018-05-17T09:51

By Lauren
at 2018-05-22T08:40
at 2018-05-22T08:40

By Liam
at 2018-05-24T03:44
at 2018-05-24T03:44

By Liam
at 2018-05-26T11:00
at 2018-05-26T11:00
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By Olive
at 2018-05-30T18:30
at 2018-05-30T18:30
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By Ina
at 2018-05-31T11:13
at 2018-05-31T11:13
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By Kama
at 2018-06-04T23:26
at 2018-06-04T23:26
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By Rebecca
at 2018-06-07T09:31
at 2018-06-07T09:31
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By Michael
at 2018-06-11T12:57
at 2018-06-11T12:57
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By Tracy
at 2018-06-12T13:10
at 2018-06-12T13:10
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By Blanche
at 2018-06-17T01:07
at 2018-06-17T01:07
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By Dinah
at 2018-06-19T05:20
at 2018-06-19T05:20
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By Elma
at 2018-06-19T17:31
at 2018-06-19T17:31
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By Hardy
at 2018-06-21T14:01
at 2018-06-21T14:01
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By Dorothy
at 2018-06-24T11:20
at 2018-06-24T11:20
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By Doris
at 2018-06-25T07:53
at 2018-06-25T07:53
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By Regina
at 2018-06-29T19:42
at 2018-06-29T19:42
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By Connor
at 2018-07-01T19:36
at 2018-07-01T19:36
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By Doris
at 2018-07-04T01:09
at 2018-07-04T01:09
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By Charlotte
at 2018-07-05T15:47
at 2018-07-05T15:47
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By Lucy
at 2018-07-07T06:34
at 2018-07-07T06:34
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By Megan
at 2018-07-09T01:23
at 2018-07-09T01:23
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By Linda
at 2018-07-11T19:11
at 2018-07-11T19:11
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By Isabella
at 2018-07-12T17:35
at 2018-07-12T17:35
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By Quintina
at 2018-07-12T21:29
at 2018-07-12T21:29
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By Audriana
at 2018-07-17T01:06
at 2018-07-17T01:06
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By Agatha
at 2018-07-18T13:02
at 2018-07-18T13:02
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By Edwina
at 2018-07-21T21:14
at 2018-07-21T21:14
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By Steve
at 2018-07-23T02:23
at 2018-07-23T02:23

By Edwina
at 2018-07-26T18:14
at 2018-07-26T18:14
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By Dora
at 2018-07-28T12:05
at 2018-07-28T12:05
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By Joseph
at 2018-07-31T18:22
at 2018-07-31T18:22
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By Oscar
at 2018-08-05T05:02
at 2018-08-05T05:02
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By Aaliyah
at 2018-08-05T09:32
at 2018-08-05T09:32

By Hardy
at 2018-08-06T16:22
at 2018-08-06T16:22
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By Candice
at 2018-08-10T17:32
at 2018-08-10T17:32
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By Caroline
at 2018-08-12T12:19
at 2018-08-12T12:19

By Sandy
at 2018-08-15T16:56
at 2018-08-15T16:56

By Delia
at 2018-08-20T13:23
at 2018-08-20T13:23

By Franklin
at 2018-08-20T20:17
at 2018-08-20T20:17

By Olga
at 2018-08-21T04:22
at 2018-08-21T04:22
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By Yuri
at 2018-08-25T14:14
at 2018-08-25T14:14

By Robert
at 2018-08-29T20:10
at 2018-08-29T20:10
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By Dora
at 2018-09-01T14:35
at 2018-09-01T14:35
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By Lily
at 2018-09-05T01:04
at 2018-09-05T01:04
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By Margaret
at 2018-09-08T10:21
at 2018-09-08T10:21
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By Ingrid
at 2018-09-11T16:56
at 2018-09-11T16:56
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By Rosalind
at 2018-09-14T04:18
at 2018-09-14T04:18

By Ingrid
at 2018-09-15T16:10
at 2018-09-15T16:10
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By Zora
at 2018-09-19T03:56
at 2018-09-19T03:56
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By Bennie
at 2018-09-23T15:00
at 2018-09-23T15:00
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By Rae
at 2018-09-24T03:03
at 2018-09-24T03:03
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By Cara
at 2018-09-29T01:09
at 2018-09-29T01:09
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By Noah
at 2018-09-30T04:14
at 2018-09-30T04:14

By Steve
at 2018-10-02T21:44
at 2018-10-02T21:44
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By Catherine
at 2018-10-05T22:07
at 2018-10-05T22:07

By Kumar
at 2018-10-09T12:42
at 2018-10-09T12:42
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By Mason
at 2018-10-10T14:30
at 2018-10-10T14:30

By Dorothy
at 2018-10-11T06:24
at 2018-10-11T06:24
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By Sandy
at 2018-10-13T20:40
at 2018-10-13T20:40
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