扭力樑跟多連桿真的有差嗎? - 價格

By Leila
at 2019-02-20T16:18
at 2019-02-20T16:18
Table of Contents
※ 引述《nwtk (貝格)》之銘言:
: 隨著某福的大改款新車上市
: 配備大部份都升級
: 唯獨多連桿
: 換成扭力樑就被砲轟偷料
: 我不太懂的是
: 就行車安全
: 跟"一般用路駕駛"的感受
: 兩方面來說
我不回太多,畢竟這是個邏輯問題。最簡單來看,媒體試駕影片講的東西,是「沒有錯」
但我覺得你應該要先思考的問題是,為什麼他們會這樣講
不過在那之前,我覺得可以先簡單思考一下,如果你是要用很低,或者說不高的標準來檢
視,你當然可以說這兩者感覺不出差異;甚至你的屁股、耳朵如果不敏感一點,你也可以
說正常行駛下,你感覺不出Mazda 3跟ES 200的隔音有差
某種程度上來說,這也沒錯,因為當你上班通勤在新竹科學園區,時速只能開20、30的時
候,你還可能真的感覺不太出來這兩台車的風切聲抑制確實有差異;或是講白一點,你就
木耳的時候,搞不好你開到70、80,你還是分不出差異
所以就這個立場來看,你也不能說試車媒體講的話有錯
問題是出在他們並沒有真的負起責任,跟你解釋甚麼叫做「正常行駛」的範圍,或是所謂
出現「有差」的時候,那個有差到底會差多少
回過頭來看你的問題,非獨立懸吊真的坐起來會比較差嗎?
我以我粗淺的理解來解釋,當然我相信板上專業的大大很多,應該可以講更清楚。短行程
非獨立懸吊由於是一體的,假設你坐在左後座,而駕駛剛好右輪壓過一個很大的坑洞時,
由於懸吊本身不是分開運作,而是一體成形,所以連帶影響到你那一側的感受會比較強;
類似的問題,當你過彎車子側傾時,由於力都偏向某一側,所以在懸吊一體的情況下,另
一側的輪胎可能會被拉抬而離地
如果你坐過Solio這種小車的後座,你就會知道我的意思
簡而言之,舒適度會比較差。但偏偏問題就出在,你不知道的是細節,例如要壓到多大的
坑洞會有差?那如果連續壓三個沒那麼大的呢?後座的感覺有多差?壓到坑洞的震動或彈跳感
受有多強?這你都不會知道
當然,如果你說就開的人而言,這倒是真的未必會很明顯感受,因為你開車又不坐後座;
但當你不幸在後座時,你就會開始想為什麼這後座不是很好坐,很想趕快下車
當然,你說扭力樑或葉片式這種非獨立懸吊,有沒有辦法透過後天的調整來改變它先天結
構上的不足?例如讓它離地的幅度降低,或是仍然保持一定程度的穩定而不失控,甚至是在
幅度不大時盡量不要離地,或是搭配上其他設定來改善此一問題?答案當然是可以的,畢竟
法國人就這樣搞。最簡單的類比理解,就像你開發出一具引擎,先天動力不足,你還是可
以靠自己土炮渦輪來增加動力,類似的道理
但這就會出現問題,最簡單的來說,上限比較低
非獨立懸吊再怎麼改,還是很難做到互不影響,因為當你做到一定程度時,基本上就是獨
立懸吊的架構了,或是魔改到一定程度,非獨立懸吊反而變得比較貴的時候,那就沒意義
了。這又不是做蘿蔔大骨湯,裡面可以都不放蘿蔔跟大骨,只放排骨酥
那你說,這樣到底要算在正常行駛下,是有差還是沒差?
很難說,對吧
但很難否認的是,客觀上來說,你很難說非獨立懸吊會比獨立懸吊好;就算你感覺不出差
異,那是一回事。你吃不出小美冰淇淋跟哈根大支的差異,但你不會覺得火鍋店把哈根大
支降級成小美,然後一樣價格,這件事情不叫偷工減料或CP值降低
而鄉民在幹的,本來就是這件事情,不完全是實際上吃不吃得出差異的點
當然你說幹好啊,我們現在把鄉民抓去盲測,看看鄉民能不能吃得出小美、杜老爺、莫凡
彼跟哈根大支...喔,不是,是上車能不能開得出扭力樑、葉片懸吊、獨立懸吊、雙A臂跟
麥花臣系統的差別,甚至開到極限,開得出來的才有資格靠邀?
我想,十個有九個開不出來,我覺得搞不好我也是那九個
但你一直搞錯鄉民不爽的點,所以你會問錯問題
車評會這麼說,那是因為大家混口飯吃,通常拿人的手短,吃人的嘴軟,這可以理解。但
被偷換概念,以為鄉民不爽的是我大Focus的胚車極限降低,然後上來問說兩種懸吊是不是
胚起來真的有差,搞錯這件事那就是你的問題了
做為一個消費者,你如果很想要這台車,還是可以說服自己這沒有差,這無所謂;如果你
真的很想要,就算鄉民跟你說胚起來fu就是不同,你還是會拿安迪老爹的說法來催眠自己
「你看,專業車評都說沒差」
這無所謂,反正車是你要買,你買單大家也沒意見。但如果不是,你就要弄清楚鄉民幹的
點,是被差別待遇的感受降級問題,不是實際上在山道胚到極限的差異
那是一種我明明可以拿到比較好的東西,卻突然被降級的心情;或是一種我原本以為我跟
全世界都一樣,沒想到我的待遇比較特別...特別差,的那種感覺,給你參考
: 扭力樑真的差到不行嗎...?
: 我知道造車成本有差
: 但有誰會每天通勤
: 都在超駕
: 用力的考驗底盤懸吊的...?
: 看幾則搶先上映
: 的媒體試駕影片
: 都認為如果只是一般通勤
: 正常駕駛
: 其實感受不出差異
: 但是真的要在山路輸贏
: 扭力樑的能耐還是比較差
: 版上有沒有
: 實際駕駛過
我不知道你有沒有真的去胚過車,如果有的話,你會知道這問題很難這樣回,因為每一款
車、每個車廠的調校跟設定差異很大,就像你說採用獨立懸吊的BMW E34跟法系非獨立懸吊
的小車在山路對打,誰會贏?
E34的懸吊設定是很好開,也很舒服,過彎很穩,動力也比較強,但由於車體太大、軸距長
、極限有差,能不能跑贏206,那我還覺得真難說...其實我想應該是不會贏。但如果E34沒
贏,能說這是因為非獨立懸吊勝過獨立懸吊嗎?
顯然很難這樣說吧?
你沒有設定好對比的條件,就沒有辦法比較,不變的道理,不是單純兩台不同懸吊的車種
對打就能評比優劣跟差異
: 這兩種懸吊房車的仁兄
: 可以分享一下差異為何?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
長頸鹿的熱咖啡 幹你媽的 ▅▃▅ φz960124
在流到他的喉嚨的時候 認同請分享! ◣◣¥◢◢
熱咖啡早就冷掉了 ┌ ⊙ ⊙ ◥▃
你有想過這個咪? ▎ ▋ ◥ 人◣◣▃
二勹 ┼─ ㊣ █◢ ◥ ◣◥▃
╱又 ╯月。 因為你只會想到你自己 皿◢ ◥ ◣◣▃
--
: 隨著某福的大改款新車上市
: 配備大部份都升級
: 唯獨多連桿
: 換成扭力樑就被砲轟偷料
: 我不太懂的是
: 就行車安全
: 跟"一般用路駕駛"的感受
: 兩方面來說
我不回太多,畢竟這是個邏輯問題。最簡單來看,媒體試駕影片講的東西,是「沒有錯」
但我覺得你應該要先思考的問題是,為什麼他們會這樣講
不過在那之前,我覺得可以先簡單思考一下,如果你是要用很低,或者說不高的標準來檢
視,你當然可以說這兩者感覺不出差異;甚至你的屁股、耳朵如果不敏感一點,你也可以
說正常行駛下,你感覺不出Mazda 3跟ES 200的隔音有差
某種程度上來說,這也沒錯,因為當你上班通勤在新竹科學園區,時速只能開20、30的時
候,你還可能真的感覺不太出來這兩台車的風切聲抑制確實有差異;或是講白一點,你就
木耳的時候,搞不好你開到70、80,你還是分不出差異
所以就這個立場來看,你也不能說試車媒體講的話有錯
問題是出在他們並沒有真的負起責任,跟你解釋甚麼叫做「正常行駛」的範圍,或是所謂
出現「有差」的時候,那個有差到底會差多少
回過頭來看你的問題,非獨立懸吊真的坐起來會比較差嗎?
我以我粗淺的理解來解釋,當然我相信板上專業的大大很多,應該可以講更清楚。短行程
非獨立懸吊由於是一體的,假設你坐在左後座,而駕駛剛好右輪壓過一個很大的坑洞時,
由於懸吊本身不是分開運作,而是一體成形,所以連帶影響到你那一側的感受會比較強;
類似的問題,當你過彎車子側傾時,由於力都偏向某一側,所以在懸吊一體的情況下,另
一側的輪胎可能會被拉抬而離地
如果你坐過Solio這種小車的後座,你就會知道我的意思
簡而言之,舒適度會比較差。但偏偏問題就出在,你不知道的是細節,例如要壓到多大的
坑洞會有差?那如果連續壓三個沒那麼大的呢?後座的感覺有多差?壓到坑洞的震動或彈跳感
受有多強?這你都不會知道
當然,如果你說就開的人而言,這倒是真的未必會很明顯感受,因為你開車又不坐後座;
但當你不幸在後座時,你就會開始想為什麼這後座不是很好坐,很想趕快下車
當然,你說扭力樑或葉片式這種非獨立懸吊,有沒有辦法透過後天的調整來改變它先天結
構上的不足?例如讓它離地的幅度降低,或是仍然保持一定程度的穩定而不失控,甚至是在
幅度不大時盡量不要離地,或是搭配上其他設定來改善此一問題?答案當然是可以的,畢竟
法國人就這樣搞。最簡單的類比理解,就像你開發出一具引擎,先天動力不足,你還是可
以靠自己土炮渦輪來增加動力,類似的道理
但這就會出現問題,最簡單的來說,上限比較低
非獨立懸吊再怎麼改,還是很難做到互不影響,因為當你做到一定程度時,基本上就是獨
立懸吊的架構了,或是魔改到一定程度,非獨立懸吊反而變得比較貴的時候,那就沒意義
了。這又不是做蘿蔔大骨湯,裡面可以都不放蘿蔔跟大骨,只放排骨酥
那你說,這樣到底要算在正常行駛下,是有差還是沒差?
很難說,對吧
但很難否認的是,客觀上來說,你很難說非獨立懸吊會比獨立懸吊好;就算你感覺不出差
異,那是一回事。你吃不出小美冰淇淋跟哈根大支的差異,但你不會覺得火鍋店把哈根大
支降級成小美,然後一樣價格,這件事情不叫偷工減料或CP值降低
而鄉民在幹的,本來就是這件事情,不完全是實際上吃不吃得出差異的點
當然你說幹好啊,我們現在把鄉民抓去盲測,看看鄉民能不能吃得出小美、杜老爺、莫凡
彼跟哈根大支...喔,不是,是上車能不能開得出扭力樑、葉片懸吊、獨立懸吊、雙A臂跟
麥花臣系統的差別,甚至開到極限,開得出來的才有資格靠邀?
我想,十個有九個開不出來,我覺得搞不好我也是那九個
但你一直搞錯鄉民不爽的點,所以你會問錯問題
車評會這麼說,那是因為大家混口飯吃,通常拿人的手短,吃人的嘴軟,這可以理解。但
被偷換概念,以為鄉民不爽的是我大Focus的胚車極限降低,然後上來問說兩種懸吊是不是
胚起來真的有差,搞錯這件事那就是你的問題了
做為一個消費者,你如果很想要這台車,還是可以說服自己這沒有差,這無所謂;如果你
真的很想要,就算鄉民跟你說胚起來fu就是不同,你還是會拿安迪老爹的說法來催眠自己
「你看,專業車評都說沒差」
這無所謂,反正車是你要買,你買單大家也沒意見。但如果不是,你就要弄清楚鄉民幹的
點,是被差別待遇的感受降級問題,不是實際上在山道胚到極限的差異
那是一種我明明可以拿到比較好的東西,卻突然被降級的心情;或是一種我原本以為我跟
全世界都一樣,沒想到我的待遇比較特別...特別差,的那種感覺,給你參考
: 扭力樑真的差到不行嗎...?
: 我知道造車成本有差
: 但有誰會每天通勤
: 都在超駕
: 用力的考驗底盤懸吊的...?
: 看幾則搶先上映
: 的媒體試駕影片
: 都認為如果只是一般通勤
: 正常駕駛
: 其實感受不出差異
: 但是真的要在山路輸贏
: 扭力樑的能耐還是比較差
: 版上有沒有
: 實際駕駛過
我不知道你有沒有真的去胚過車,如果有的話,你會知道這問題很難這樣回,因為每一款
車、每個車廠的調校跟設定差異很大,就像你說採用獨立懸吊的BMW E34跟法系非獨立懸吊
的小車在山路對打,誰會贏?
E34的懸吊設定是很好開,也很舒服,過彎很穩,動力也比較強,但由於車體太大、軸距長
、極限有差,能不能跑贏206,那我還覺得真難說...其實我想應該是不會贏。但如果E34沒
贏,能說這是因為非獨立懸吊勝過獨立懸吊嗎?
顯然很難這樣說吧?
你沒有設定好對比的條件,就沒有辦法比較,不變的道理,不是單純兩台不同懸吊的車種
對打就能評比優劣跟差異
: 這兩種懸吊房車的仁兄
: 可以分享一下差異為何?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
長頸鹿的熱咖啡 幹你媽的 ▅▃▅ φz960124
在流到他的喉嚨的時候 認同請分享! ◣◣¥◢◢
熱咖啡早就冷掉了 ┌ ⊙ ⊙ ◥▃
你有想過這個咪? ▎ ▋ ◥ 人◣◣▃
二勹 ┼─ ㊣ █◢ ◥ ◣◥▃
╱又 ╯月。 因為你只會想到你自己 皿◢ ◥ ◣◣▃
--
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at 2019-03-14T16:39
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By Skylar Davis
at 2019-03-15T02:26
at 2019-03-15T02:26

By Emma
at 2019-03-18T11:21
at 2019-03-18T11:21

By Ula
at 2019-03-22T04:54
at 2019-03-22T04:54

By Rachel
at 2019-03-23T09:42
at 2019-03-23T09:42

By Mia
at 2019-03-26T02:22
at 2019-03-26T02:22

By Noah
at 2019-03-27T19:10
at 2019-03-27T19:10

By Anthony
at 2019-03-31T11:15
at 2019-03-31T11:15

By Blanche
at 2019-04-04T14:46
at 2019-04-04T14:46

By Joseph
at 2019-04-08T10:07
at 2019-04-08T10:07

By Carol
at 2019-04-09T02:53
at 2019-04-09T02:53

By Poppy
at 2019-04-10T09:47
at 2019-04-10T09:47

By Skylar DavisLinda
at 2019-04-14T08:09
at 2019-04-14T08:09

By Liam
at 2019-04-15T01:29
at 2019-04-15T01:29

By Agnes
at 2019-04-15T12:16
at 2019-04-15T12:16

By Charlotte
at 2019-04-16T14:54
at 2019-04-16T14:54

By Jacky
at 2019-04-21T12:31
at 2019-04-21T12:31

By Isla
at 2019-04-22T04:36
at 2019-04-22T04:36

By Odelette
at 2019-04-25T10:54
at 2019-04-25T10:54

By Hedwig
at 2019-04-25T12:41
at 2019-04-25T12:41

By Connor
at 2019-04-26T05:48
at 2019-04-26T05:48

By Erin
at 2019-04-28T17:50
at 2019-04-28T17:50

By Todd Johnson
at 2019-05-03T02:23
at 2019-05-03T02:23

By Iris
at 2019-05-06T05:56
at 2019-05-06T05:56

By Ursula
at 2019-05-10T19:39
at 2019-05-10T19:39

By Frederica
at 2019-05-11T09:32
at 2019-05-11T09:32

By Leila
at 2019-05-12T06:18
at 2019-05-12T06:18

By Christine
at 2019-05-15T08:29
at 2019-05-15T08:29

By Wallis
at 2019-05-17T18:55
at 2019-05-17T18:55

By Carolina Franco
at 2019-05-20T14:05
at 2019-05-20T14:05

By Jacky
at 2019-05-24T07:33
at 2019-05-24T07:33

By Donna
at 2019-05-25T02:56
at 2019-05-25T02:56

By Zora
at 2019-05-26T21:41
at 2019-05-26T21:41

By Carol
at 2019-05-29T10:04
at 2019-05-29T10:04

By Hamiltion
at 2019-06-02T02:30
at 2019-06-02T02:30

By Carol
at 2019-06-03T09:38
at 2019-06-03T09:38

By Charlie
at 2019-06-07T02:50
at 2019-06-07T02:50

By Wallis
at 2019-06-07T20:17
at 2019-06-07T20:17

By Caitlin
at 2019-06-09T05:24
at 2019-06-09T05:24

By Oliver
at 2019-06-11T23:20
at 2019-06-11T23:20

By Edith
at 2019-06-16T21:52
at 2019-06-16T21:52

By Erin
at 2019-06-20T17:40
at 2019-06-20T17:40

By Isla
at 2019-06-24T02:59
at 2019-06-24T02:59

By Delia
at 2019-06-26T15:26
at 2019-06-26T15:26

By Yuri
at 2019-07-01T01:33
at 2019-07-01T01:33

By Quanna
at 2019-07-05T14:34
at 2019-07-05T14:34

By Dora
at 2019-07-10T14:18
at 2019-07-10T14:18

By Rachel
at 2019-07-11T01:48
at 2019-07-11T01:48

By Mia
at 2019-07-13T19:01
at 2019-07-13T19:01

By Andy
at 2019-07-16T18:35
at 2019-07-16T18:35

By Cara
at 2019-07-21T04:37
at 2019-07-21T04:37

By Doris
at 2019-07-24T17:41
at 2019-07-24T17:41

By David
at 2019-07-28T15:37
at 2019-07-28T15:37

By Emily
at 2019-07-28T22:00
at 2019-07-28T22:00

By Dora
at 2019-08-02T10:17
at 2019-08-02T10:17

By Blanche
at 2019-08-05T19:37
at 2019-08-05T19:37

By Elma
at 2019-08-06T18:46
at 2019-08-06T18:46

By Andy
at 2019-08-08T01:08
at 2019-08-08T01:08

By Catherine
at 2019-08-12T19:10
at 2019-08-12T19:10

By Kumar
at 2019-08-17T13:19
at 2019-08-17T13:19

By William
at 2019-08-19T12:56
at 2019-08-19T12:56

By Noah
at 2019-08-23T23:39
at 2019-08-23T23:39

By Joe
at 2019-08-24T14:22
at 2019-08-24T14:22

By Rae
at 2019-08-27T04:58
at 2019-08-27T04:58

By Isla
at 2019-08-29T01:25
at 2019-08-29T01:25

By Tom
at 2019-09-02T22:27
at 2019-09-02T22:27

By Odelette
at 2019-09-03T09:31
at 2019-09-03T09:31

By Aaliyah
at 2019-09-05T05:41
at 2019-09-05T05:41

By Blanche
at 2019-09-09T13:01
at 2019-09-09T13:01

By Vanessa
at 2019-09-11T14:30
at 2019-09-11T14:30

By Sandy
at 2019-09-11T20:00
at 2019-09-11T20:00

By Kumar
at 2019-09-16T11:50
at 2019-09-16T11:50

By Mason
at 2019-09-21T01:34
at 2019-09-21T01:34

By Edith
at 2019-09-21T16:14
at 2019-09-21T16:14

By Anthony
at 2019-09-23T03:25
at 2019-09-23T03:25

By Zenobia
at 2019-09-27T00:59
at 2019-09-27T00:59

By Ethan
at 2019-10-01T00:47
at 2019-10-01T00:47

By Caitlin
at 2019-10-04T08:16
at 2019-10-04T08:16

By Jack
at 2019-10-07T07:32
at 2019-10-07T07:32

By Sarah
at 2019-10-08T19:55
at 2019-10-08T19:55

By Zenobia
at 2019-10-11T03:37
at 2019-10-11T03:37

By Bethany
at 2019-10-13T00:49
at 2019-10-13T00:49

By Lily
at 2019-10-15T06:10
at 2019-10-15T06:10

By Elizabeth
at 2019-10-16T23:57
at 2019-10-16T23:57

By Poppy
at 2019-10-20T11:01
at 2019-10-20T11:01

By Enid
at 2019-10-24T00:37
at 2019-10-24T00:37

By Queena
at 2019-10-28T04:56
at 2019-10-28T04:56

By Tristan Cohan
at 2019-10-30T06:53
at 2019-10-30T06:53
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By Elvira
at 2019-11-02T00:15
at 2019-11-02T00:15
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By Megan
at 2019-11-02T15:22
at 2019-11-02T15:22
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By Madame
at 2019-11-05T12:39
at 2019-11-05T12:39
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By Cara
at 2019-11-06T04:19
at 2019-11-06T04:19
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By James
at 2019-11-10T18:56
at 2019-11-10T18:56
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By Bethany
at 2019-11-13T09:03
at 2019-11-13T09:03
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By Frederica
at 2019-11-13T15:14
at 2019-11-13T15:14
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By Thomas
at 2019-11-15T00:24
at 2019-11-15T00:24
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By Noah
at 2019-11-18T03:13
at 2019-11-18T03:13
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By Steve
at 2019-11-19T13:39
at 2019-11-19T13:39
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By Edwina
at 2019-11-21T04:40
at 2019-11-21T04:40
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By Kumar
at 2019-11-25T00:22
at 2019-11-25T00:22
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By Selena
at 2019-11-27T13:03
at 2019-11-27T13:03
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By Frederica
at 2019-12-02T02:07
at 2019-12-02T02:07
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By Ula
at 2019-12-04T12:29
at 2019-12-04T12:29
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By Doris
at 2019-12-09T04:37
at 2019-12-09T04:37
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By David
at 2019-12-11T09:45
at 2019-12-11T09:45
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By Freda
at 2019-12-12T18:24
at 2019-12-12T18:24
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By Freda
at 2019-12-14T21:08
at 2019-12-14T21:08
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at 2019-12-17T07:47
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at 2019-12-20T11:27
at 2019-12-20T11:27
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at 2019-12-24T02:57
at 2019-12-24T02:57
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at 2019-12-25T23:23
at 2019-12-25T23:23
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By Charlotte
at 2019-12-28T19:21
at 2019-12-28T19:21
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By Edward Lewis
at 2019-12-31T12:21
at 2019-12-31T12:21
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at 2020-01-04T06:45
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at 2020-01-08T12:15
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at 2020-01-10T22:01
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at 2020-01-11T15:19
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By Queena
at 2020-01-11T16:27
at 2020-01-11T16:27
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at 2020-01-13T09:10
at 2020-01-13T09:10
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